You Can’t Say That
Message Transcription
SUMMARY
In this powerful sermon, Dr. David Fraze tackles the difficult topic of suffering and pain in a world where God is present. He begins by addressing the common questions people ask when faced with tragedy, such as "Why do bad things happen to good people?" Fraze doesn't shy away from the reality that choices have consequences and that we live in a fallen world.
The speaker emphasizes the importance of authenticity in our faith, encouraging believers to be honest with God about their struggles. He uses Biblical examples, such as Psalms of lament and the story of Aaron in Leviticus 10, to show that it's okay to question God and express our pain. Fraze also shares personal experiences, including a tragic bus accident, to illustrate how God remains faithful even in our darkest moments.
Throughout the sermon, Fraze challenges common Christian platitudes and oversimplifications of Scripture. He urges the church to embrace a more nuanced understanding of faith that acknowledges the complexities of life while still holding onto the hope found in Christ. The message concludes with a powerful reminder that God is present in our suffering and that His power, which raised Jesus from the dead, is at work in believers' lives today.
TRANSCRIPTION:
What an encouraging scripture reading, right?
You can't say that in church. You can't start a sermon like that. But that's how I start almost every general Bible class, especially over the last few years. You know, when you have individuals who grew up in the church and are disenchanted, or those who are new to the faith and receiving the first pushback, or those who have a problem, who come to a Christian university because of the high academics and the small classrooms, all this stuff, and they have to take Bible and they can't transfer those credits. It's awesome opportunity.
And so I'll ask them to join in a little cynicism with them, with me, and I invite them into civil discourse and to really listen to the word of God. And one of the first questions, the hand goes up. But if God loves us so much, why they are suffering in the world? Why do bad things happen to good people? I wish I could give you an answer, and I do have sort of an answer in my mind.
But the rough, overarching narrative is when we decided to be our own God, we opened up pain and suffering. And choices have consequences. And when my students were in here, and some of them may be. So they have to answer two questions all the way through Old Testament survey choices inherent in relationship, meaning that God wants a relationship, so that choice has consequences. And so we also suffer from other people's consequences.
That's the nature of our world, and it's not hidden in Scripture. And the other one is the sin problem is a heart problem. And it's always been the case. And even though we try to build our protective babbles, pain always seems to get in the way. But the amazing thing is, and this is going to sound kind of jovial, but when people are in pain, and I've been there a lot, and people are dying in front of me and things are happening around me, they don't stub their toe in the middle of the night and say, oh, Bail.
They don't stub their toe and say, oh. They cry out, to who? To God. And I think there's something there. And the class looks at me and said, okay, you have our attention.
And then for the first time, some of these individuals read the Bible. Even those who are raised to churches like Irish, they actually read through Genesis and they do a reader's outline, and we have discussions and the hands go up and say, these are a dysfunctional people. And it's usually something to do with sexuality. The first question, what's up with lot? And his daughters.
It's hilarious. I have a gambling bet going on. That's going to be the first question. Always is. And it's in the Bible.
And it's not hidden in the idea of suffering. Because choice is inherent in what.
And sin problem is a what. And God works through it. Remember the first time they read stories in all the VBS because you can't do Genesis with puppets. I don't know how you do it in reality. And they start listening and they look for an authentic voice to explain their experience.
So I'm going to take you back to a horrible event. Because when I was in ministry 10 years, it was May 2 of 99 when the bus wreck happened. And many of you all experienced that and walked that road with me and with my sweet wife and the Green Lawn family. It's over 25 years ago and I realized that we started planning a service that we had no songs to lament. Gary, do you remember back in the.
There were no lament songs because you can't say that. You can't cry out to God. You can't do that. And John Willis, who is a professor of mine at ACU the following year and some of you know that Mike Cope experienced a horrible death. And so John and I visited together because they tried to do a lament at Highland.
They're like going, we don't have any songs for that. So John and he dig, you know, dug deep. And that's the first time even though they've been there and I had an education, I realize a third of our Psalms are lament. A third just like the one you listen to. But we don't have very many VBS songs that way, right?
Jesus loves me this I know if the devil doesn't like it, he can say, well, if you have question God because he's abandoned you, stand up and yell, we're not going to do that.
So in that bus wreck there was a 14 year old girl and I'll protect all the identities who that. As we got everybody out and I triage the bus, there was one girl who started waking up and doing gibberish talk and I knew something was wrong. Her arm was broken, her neck was displaced and I had to calm her down. The first responders had not showed up yet. So I took her best friend of 14 years and she couldn't get off the bus.
I placed her on the bus and I moved this young lady and I put her hands around this young lady's head and I said, sweetheart, I'm sorry, I just need you to say her name over and over and over again. And her friend calmed down. This girl was a hero, saved her friend's life because if she would have thrashed around, she would have died. She already had a ruptured spleen. And here's this 14 year old being a hero.
So the week after, literally just days after, in the middle of the week, the state police show up and they, they, they don't do that in New Mexico. They show up and they go to Green Lawn and some of you may have been in that room and they just wanted to see if the kids were all right because it was a bigger event than I was aware of. And some of you probably were part of the praying event and you showed up and were part of that and just thank you for that. But a parent stood up and said, I'm so proud of our kids. Three days after the wreck, I m so proud of our kids because they're not questioning God.
And I literally got sick to my stomach because it's not a matter of if, but what when. So about a month later, this girl who held her friend covered with blood herself, she's just crying and everybody else leaves the youth room. And there she was. And here was her question. David, we prayed for a safe trip.
You know, what's coming next. Why did God not answer our prayer?
Well, let me tell you the theological ramifications of a sovereign God and the following. I didn't say a thing because there are times where no response or rebuke. You just sit there and you're still right.
So can you go with me in that moment?
Because the God of the impossible, this is probably, in my opinion, when he's had his very best, is when suffering cannot be explained. And it's different than any other God that the world wants to point to because you don't have to crawl up steps and say, I'm going to do all these things so I could see God. You don't have to be perfect. But you cry out to him and the amazing thing is he meets you in that moment. Amen.
And that's different because there are times, everybody in this auditorium, let's just do a little therapy. How many of y'all have come to church and everybody's singing around you, but you just don't want to sing, Raise your hand.
Well, you can't do that. Did you see the beautiful communion? That's why this family is here. That's authentic and that is real. There's times we set our kids up and I see this.
And I feel like I have to undo a lot of things because we make the weirdest statements. And I want you to go with me again back to that week. And I've heard it since then. But since that's kind of a grounding point for all of us, let's go back to 1999. If your daughter lived and your daughter was lost, and you're in the same proximity, we get so nervous if somebody would walk up to you and say, I'm so glad God was with your daughter.
Well, you heard that. So what's the implication? God wasn't with her. Friend of mine said he got on to his mom. He goes to another.
He is part of another faith tribe. And he yelled at his mom because when it came across the news, she said, what did that bus driver do that God would let that happen? And he goes, I know him. He didn't do anything. But we're trying to look for cause.
But what happens when you don't have an explanation? Or recently, when I was preaching at a church in Junction, Texas, of all places, people are trying to somehow help a young person understand why their father isn't here anymore. This is the dumbest thing I've ever said. So if you said that, I'm just gonna say, that's a dumb thing. Stop saying it, and now use the word dumb.
God just needed another flower for his garden.
So God's a narcissist.
I knew you, Gary, I need a beautiful flower in my garden. We wouldn't be singing songs to a God like that, would we? It doesn't make sense to the overall theology. So we set our kids up with things like this. God wants you to be happy.
If you tell your kids, God wants you to be happy, which is not in the Bible. It's very American. The first thing, when something bad happens to that kid, they will say, there is no God. Or we use Jeremiah 29 way out of context. This is a big one because it could be on your refrigerator.
There's a thing called Deuteronomist history. It's in Genesis. It's in Deuteronomy 30. It's in Jeremiah 29, which is an overarching realism to a God of covenant with Israel. And he says this.
I have plans to bless you and not harm you. And we've made it a personal you. So I asked my kids this semester, does God have a plan for your life? And this kid Step said, yes. I said, what is it?
God is true and he doesn't speak lies. And the Bible says, that God has plans to harm me, to bless me and prosper me. And I just stop him and I say, so you get cancer and die.
Is God still good? And he just looked at me because God is not a genie in model. Because choice is inherent in relationship. And we take the things we want out of Scripture because we don't want to face a reality that our kids are going to have to face someday. That bad things happen to good people.
And remember church? The wise man built this house upon them. Yeah, let's go old school. The foolish man built this house upon them. Both houses received the storm.
Would you please hear the word of God? That's a famous sermon. The last illustration. A storm hits all of us. Well, you can't say that.
There's kids in the audience. They need to hear it. Don't you, teenagers? Because it's rough being a Christian, isn't it? College students?
Is college just so easy? It's ridiculous. Am I speaking truth? Where's God love this? Because we have a voice.
When bad things happen and you're disenchanted if you get cancer, if you have to go through struggle, there is a God of the impossible that says, you can say that. You can say that. So let's go back to the psalm of lament77. I'm going to share a few things with you. You're not going to see any slides because I want you to turn there in your Bible.
I want you to circle them. Okay? I'm just going to take you through a journey. This are Psalms that gives me hope of stories in the Old Testament that gives me hope. Stories in the New Testament that give me hope when I'm faced with the impossible so that God and the impossible shows up.
Psalm 77 again. I cried out to God for help. I cried out to God to hear me when I was in distress. I sought the Lord at night. I stretched out untiring hands and I would not be comforted.
Do you see this guy's praying? He's in a hospital room. He's on the side of a loved one. He's crying out. He has a bad diagnosis.
He's lost everything, whatever it is, he's crying out. And here's his experience. I remembered you, God. And I groaned.
I meditated. My spirit grew faint. You kept my eyes from closing. I was too troubled to speak. And I thought about the former days, the years long ago when everything was happening.
I'm on that mountaintop, he's saying. I remembered my songs in the Night, my heart meditated, and my spirit asked, this is tough. Will the Lord reject forever? Will he never show his favor again? Has this unfailing love vanished forever?
Has his promise failed for all time? Has God forgotten to be merciful? Has he in his anger withheld his compassion? How many of you have ever been there?
Then I thought, to this I will appeal to the years of the Most High, stretched out his right hand. I will remember the deeds of the Lord. I will remember your miracles from long ago. That is a lament that ends well. But we've been in those dark nights of the soul.
As one theologian would say, there is no words. And we're battling with, why do we do what we do? And it becomes very clear of that there's pain in this world. And he takes a step back and he's honest with God. And then he steps back and he goes, I got to remember what God did before.
He's always been faithful. Isn't it great to be old? Here's why. Because I can look back and know that things happen.
But I survived. And it wasn't all the time the very best things, and it necessarily brought happiness. But God showed up in incredible ways, even in the midst of and some of y'all were there on May 2, May 3, when we met in the Colosseum and we had this great worship service. You may not have noticed, I left the stage because in the middle of this big crowd, right in the middle, was Bobby Heys.
Bobby is a mentor of mine, and he just sat there and he wanted me to see him, and he's just bawling. And I came off the stage and he just held me, and all he said was, oh, David. Oh, David. Reminded me of years past and was current. It's the family of God.
1 Corinthians 12. Correct. So let's go to Psalms 88.
This one talks about the same type of lament language, but look how it ends. It's the only lament that doesn't end with something good. Verse 16 of Psalm 88. Your wrath has swept over me. Your terrors have destroyed me.
All day long they surround me like a flood. They've completely engulfed me. You've taken from me friend and neighbor. Darkness is my closest friend.
All right, have a good day, guys. What a way to end a worship service.
Let’s come back to May 2nd. One of the men I was having coffee with in 2000 while his wife was in surgery at UMC in one year. Here's what this man experienced. His daughter died in the bus wreck.
His mother in law passed away and in the fall his daughter in law murdered their little baby. And here he was eating in a luncheon at UMC with me. And he goes, David, could you have turned left? And I said, no, he's a bus driver. He knew.
And he just starts bawling. He says, everybody said that this works out for the good are those who love him. And all these people are coming to faith. And he had an honest question. He goes, where's my good?
That's a Psalms 88 moment, would you agree? Then we just finished our meal.
Let's keep going. I promise this has an encouraging ending. Look at Leviticus 10. Now Leviticus 10 is. I know you're like, dave, why are you going to Leviticus?
Leviticus 10 is traditionally where we go to say, if you clap hands in church or stand up, Gary, you will go to hell. Because that's unauthorized fire. That's usually what we do. Totally out of context. And you had a praise team.
We'll talk later. So I mean we'd go to that verse because we missed the point. There's a narrative inside of here that is powerful. It's a lament. Aaron, the high priest is two sons did something that they were not supposed to do and they profaned God.
And maybe you skip this instead of focusing on what they did and the restrictions. Aaron was not able to go to his own son's funeral. He knew what happened was wrong. He knew that God's the holy God, he's the chief priest. And God said, you're not to be unshaven.
You are not to look like you're grieving. You were to be the high priest and they took those bodies outside the camp. And even though he knew it was bad, he couldn't attend his own son's funeral. Now at the end of the day, here's what the prophets are supposed to do. They're supposed to offer a sacrifice.
And as they offer the sin sacrifice for the people there to take some of that and they were to eat it. Get this. As a fellowship offering with God.
Let's read verse 16.
Moses inquired about the go to the sin offering, found that it had been burned up. He was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar. Those are the other two sons that took the first two sons place and asked, why didn't you eat the sin offering in the sanctuary? It is most holy. It was given to you to take away the guilt of the community by making atonement before the Lord.
Since his Blood was not taken into the holy place. You should have eaten the goat in the sanctuary as I commanded. And Aaron replied, this is so powerful church. Don't miss it. Today they sacrifice their sin offering and their burnt offering before the Lord.
But such things as this have happened to me. Would the Lord have been pleased if I had eaten the sin offering today? When Moses heard this, he was satisfied. Did you miss it?
God's a holy God. But sometimes, because choice is inherent in relationship.
Have you ever not wanted to have a relationship with God because you're just that hurt and you have that many questions? Welcome to the human condition. Moses was satisfied. He said, I will honor you as Holy Aaron does. But right now I don't really want to spend time with you.
I've been there. Have you? You can't say that. The Bible did. And Aaron was not rebuked for what he did.
Romans 8. Let's go to the New Testament for a second. We got three more places to go than we’ll land the plane. Romans 8.
As you know, there's times we use God works everything out for the good of those who love him. Out of context because we have a hard time.
But I love verse 26 of Romans 8. In the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for. But the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And He searches our hearts, knows the mind of the Spirit. Because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with his will. In my Bible, I have the word true.
Because when my high school youth minister, who was one of my friends, shot himself a few years ago, I had to stand in front of the hills and talk to the old youth ministry and say something.
And I had to say, this is still true. When you don't have the words to share and you don't understand what's going on. Would you sit and be still because God knows what you're feeling? Stop with the words and just be in his presence. How many of you have somebody in your life who's not here anymore that you would just give up anything just to sit with them and not say a word?
I'd love to be on a boat with my dad, just fishing, not saying a word. We have that with the Holy Spirit of God and our loved ones who are part of that cloud of witnesses. Just set and be still. Because the Holy Spirit knows. Sometimes we just need to stop with the words.
Why is that so significant? Look at Philippians 4. Let's keep going Philippians chapter 4.
Written from a prison cell.
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again. Rejoice, verse four, chapter four. It's very important to know that the word for rejoice there is not how. If you have a message book, the message Bible says, celebrate the Lord.
I mean, revel in him. That is a total mistranslation. Rejoice. The word is charis. It's grace.
There's a joy, not a happiness is a joy. He said the joy of the Lord. Double down on the joy of the Lord. Rejoice, have that joy. Because here's what he's about to say.
He's going to give us some secrecy. Sah, don't be anxious. Well, first, let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is. What is that word is right here.
Do not be anxious about anything. But in every situation, by prayer and petition with thanksgiving present your request to God and the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. I was 22 years old. Lisa and I had been married a year and my father passed away. And I was angry.
Why my dad. But sit my whole life without a dad figure. Some of y'all have stepped in as dad figures. And you know, I'm like, man, I'm way too young. Every experience we've ever had, dad's just not there.
Lisa lost her dad and when she was senior in high school. So, I mean, here you got two people with adoptive grandparents because all of our parents are gone. And you're like, what's going on? And I remember 22 at Lisa's house, I got up and I was angry. And so this is the first time in my life where I just kind of lamented to God.
The next thing I know, it is almost as if a hand was on my shoulder. And God's like, I got this. And the peace that passes understanding, I never had it before then just washed over me. I still don't have a dad.
But look at what some of you have been in my life. How great is that? And then in Philippians 4:13, you have to start in 12. I know what it is to be in need, Paul says, and I know what it is to have plenty. I've learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed, whether living in plenty or in want, that it’s not about happiness.
How can you say rejoice the Lord? How can you have that deep, abiding joy? Here it is. I can do all things through him who gives me strength. Doesn't mean that you're going to get straight A's.
It doesn't mean you're going to find the wife or husband, your dreams. It doesn't mean that you're going to be first team. It doesn't mean your business is going to be successful. It doesn't mean that you will have no disease. All of that is implanted upon this verse.
Here's what he says looking back. Whatever happens, you're going to be okay, whether you live through it or whether you die through it. I got this because Christ rose from the grave as we just san about. Isn't that amazing?
John 11 and I'm going to land the plane here. Remember Jesus wept. The shortest verse that you wanted when you were a kid so you can get that candy, right? Does anybody have a memory verse? John 11 Jesus wept.
Give me the candy. You know that verse? It is powerful because Jesus on purpose waits and he gets a mouthful for Mary and Martha. If you were here, this wouldn't have happened. Jesus knows what he's going to do.
He's about to raise him from the dead. And don't give me that. Well, maybe he was crying because he was bringing it back from glory. That makes for great writing. But that's not the purpose of the tears.
Because as he walks in, there are people crying and it's a different word. They're just like. And Jesus before the shedding of a tear, which is a quiet shedding of a tear, it is almost an angry tear because it says he'a troubled in spirit. It's the same word used for a bull that's about to charge. He's angry at something.
People are like, well, yes, you should not question God. You can't say that. There's no way that Mary and Martha are the objects of his anger. And what's with the hot tear? He doesn't cry out loud.
He just has a hot tear and with very much determination said, where'd you lay? Who is he angry at? The bringer of death. A week later, Jesus is going to be hanging on a cross. His anger was directed towards the one that he was here to say.
It is finished and death is defeated. But what does it tell me? If we have our tombs, whether literally or figuratively, Jesus hears, Jesus is present and Jesus has defeated the grave. That's big for this life on this side and the other. Amen.
So we go to work and we do the best we can. So 20 years, five years ago, we had a 20 year reunion. And you're like, dave, why would you go into grief and lament where God of the impossible? And you can't say this because I think it's a great message for the church today because there's so many people talking about suffering. We have to be authentic with our experience in.
Authentic with our God and where God is. So our 20 year anniversary, the girl who held this other young lady, we start recounting that story. And there was a young man who's very much a professional. He runs a hospital now. He just starts tearing up.
And he comes to me after the meeting and he said, can I have coffee with you tomorrow? I said, sure. And at a Starbucks on 82nd street, he said this. Dave, do you remember who you asked to say that prayer before we got on the bus?
I’m like, no, because it was me. I was 12 years old. And David Fraze asked me to say the prayer. It was my first retreat. And he just started crying.
He said, For 20 years, I wondered if my prayer wasn't enough.
I said, it's not about that. And he finally dropped that weight that he had been carrying for 20 years. An outstanding young man, an outstanding dad, doing wonderful things. But church, our God of the impossible and a Holy Spirit that listens to us and we don't have the words to say when we are frustrated and we don't understand, is present in our lives and is faithful when we don't feel like it. So hold on.
Honor him as holy. But be honest with each other. That's the family of God. Be honest with your discussion with him. That's the God the world needs to hear.
Amen. Because if you come to church, not everything always works out, does it? But it works out. And that's the works out that the world needs to see from his people. Amen.
Let's pray. Father, thank you so much for being a God of the impossible. When everything around us is going crazy and we cry out to you, you're still present. You don't get angry about our lament. You actually welcome them.
Father, we don't have words to say. You welcome our words even though we don't understand. And you listen to our hearts. Father, would you help us in those moments to be authentic with our pain, with our brothers and sisters? Authentic when the world fires back at us and not defend, but just say the grave is empty.
That same power lives in us. And you're very much among us. And the church said, amen.